Catching Up With... Todd Snider

Paste: I see you’re coming down to Atlanta to kick off your tour, doing two nights at Eddie’s Attic this Thursday and Friday. 

Snider: I don’t know if I’d call it kicking off a tour, we’re really not gonna tour at great length until September. We’re mostly just doing four or five days here and there. We just did finish doing a month, and right in the new year we did two months. It’s hard to call what a “tour" is—I guess, I’m always on tour. 

Paste: Since you’ve been on the road lately, notice anything interesting going on out there in America? 

Snider: Let me think about that. What have I seen in person? Where have I been lately? I saw Les Claypool play a couple of nights ago [right after I finished my set at the All Good Festival in Masontown, W.V.], and that really knocked me out. I got to see the whole set, sat right next to the side of the stage. I was right there where he would come off stage and put on a gorilla mask and run back out. I was right there watching him decide which mask to put on. 

Paste: Your new album, The Excitement Plan, has been out for a little over a month now. Tell me about the sessions—did you work with [engineer] Eric McConnell (Loretta Lynn & Jack White) again? Where’d you record? 

Snider: I worked with Eric on two of the songs, but most of it was recorded in L.A. with [producer] Don Was, [session drummer] Jim Keltner and [multi-instrumentalist] Greg Leisz. But first I recorded like twentysomething tracks at Eric’s, and I was happy with the way they sounded, but I wasn’t happy with the production decisions I’d made. So I called Don and asked him if he could help me ’cause I wanted to go in an acoustic direction. But every time you say “acoustic,” people think that means “mellow,” and I wanted to make an up-tempo acoustic record. So we started over. It was fun to do. It only took us about two-and-a-half days; we cut it all live. 

Paste: Did you know Don before? 

Snider: I did. I met him when Garth Brooks was Chris Gaines. And one of the songs Chris Gaines recorded was [my song] “Alright Guy.” It didn’t make the album, but I was there when it was recorded and Don was the producer. 

Paste: On your new record, there’s this song about infamous Pittsburgh Pirates pitcher Doc Ellis, who claims to have thrown a no-hitter on LSD. What made you want to write about Ellis? Are you a big baseball fan? 

Snider: I am. I’m a recent baseball fan. It’s something I like to do on the road. I find it really relaxing to go to a stadium and get sauced up while somebody else exerts themself. I didn’t know the pleasure of that ’til I was older. When I was a kid, I was like, “Why do we have to run and fuck around in a field?” But now that I see it as a way to sit in the sun and gamble and get sauced up, I love it. I heard that story about Doc Ellis from one of the Yonder Mountain String Band guys, and my first connection was that I’ve performed many times when I was probably better prepared for something else. So I felt that connection with [Ellis]. And I just liked the story. I like people who don’t fit the general perception of what they’re supposed to be—like a jock who doesn’t think the game is the end-all/be-all of his life. I always admired that about Mike Tyson. He was the best boxer in the whole world, and boxing really wasn’t that important to him. And I feel connected that way, too—I feel like the less I care about my music, the more it comes out of me, and the more fun I have. 

Paste: Listening to your music, I’ve always noticed that you write about a lot of these outsider characters—the guy who carries the boombox in Tyson’s entourage (“Iron Mike’s Main Man’s Last Request”), [mysterious airline hi-jacker] D.B. Cooper, or The Kingsmen, who were a bunch of drunken ’60s garage rockers. What is it that you relate to about these characters? 

Snider: I’ve always felt this attraction toward and love for people that America sort of uses to make itself feel smart as a culture. Somehow we’ve got it in our heads that we’re brighter than Britney Spears. And I really love Britney Spears, and I didn’t really like her until she shaved her head and started hitting that car with the umbrella. That’s my kinda action. I swear, it’s the truth, I’m not as into music as I am into chicks who will shave their heads and fucking whack a car with an umbrella. I mean, would you rather hang out with Mike Tyson for the afternoon—even though, God forbid, maybe he was a rapist? He said he wasn’t. He did his time. And not to get technical, but I remember that summer there was a young Kennedy boy who was in about the same predicament, but somehow he didn’t have to go to prison. But nevertheless, would you rather hang out with Mike Tyson for the afternoon, or would you rather hang out with six jock guys in baseball caps in a sports bar and talk about how weird his dumb tattoo is. Or what a dick he is. You know what I mean? Or even better, I love it when you hear some genius in a bar say, “That Mike Tyson’s crazy.” Ah, wow—any other pearls of wisdom you got there? Can I sit next to you? I mean, Tyson bit a guy’s ear off. Maybe you could bring something else to the table. Like maybe there’s a reason he’s acting out. [laughs] My Mom’s kind of like that—she liked it where she would go to a party, where you could just go into the party and go, “I DON’T LIKE RUSSIANS!” and everyone’s like, “AWESOME! C’MON IN, WE'RE GONNA HAVE CHIPS ’N’ SHIT!” [laughs] I just don’t like to live in that state of mind, and so it tends to make me… I don’t wanna say I root for Tonya Harding—I don’t necessarily want the pretty young girl to get a pipe to the knee. But I don’t hate Tonya Harding. I feel sorry for her. Shit, you know? Anyways, that’s good TV. I’d rather see that than the fucking warm-ups. 

Paste: You do a cover of Robert Earl Keen’s “Corpus Christi Bay” on the new album. What is it about that song that gets you? 

Snider: I feel real connected to the character in that song because I’ve been a drunk most of my life, I suppose, and my brother was my tour manager for a while. So when I think of that song, I think of me and my brother being on the road—sort of like the guy and his brother [in the song] working the rigs in Coprus Christi. And his brother eventually gets himself out of it [and mine did the same with the road life]. But, every once in a while, my brother will still fly out to see me play, and I’m like, “Nope. Still sitting in this little room with my free wine.” And his life has moved on—he’s one of those guys who comes home every night and sleeps in the same bed now. So I always just feel like he comes to Corpus and buys me a beer sometimes. 

Paste: Are you guys pretty close? 

Snider: Yeah. I talk to him a few times a week. He’s the person in my family that I’m close to. We’re like Jerry Lee Lewis and Jimmy Swaggart, though—he’s a Christian-rock booking agent, and I’m what I am. 

Paste: I’ve always been curious, you really seem to take in pop-culture like a paper shredder… 

Snider: [laughs] I do dig it, man. It’s fun. I like Liam Gallagher. 

Paste: … Do you ever write songs while you’re watching the news or reading the paper?
Snider: No. Well, that’s not true—maybe the melody part. If I’m sitting watching TV, I’ll be playing the guitar. I do take that in, and tend to find ways to throw my two cents in. I like when it gets exciting. I like Lindsay Lohan. 

Paste: Have you seen any stories in the news lately that have piqued your interest? 

Snider: Well, of course, Michael Jackson dying. I haven’t been as into that as other things. But interesting, though, interesting to me. We had this thing with [Tennessee Titan] Steve McNair go on, at least in Nashville—our quarterback got killed. I’m not so sure I think that chick was a hero, but I was real surprised to find out that’s the kind of person [McNair] was. But it’s crazy to judge people, and I don’t want to try to do that, although that’s difficult for me. On the other hand, Michael Jackson was this ridiculous junkie, and I don’t have any problem getting over that. I’m like, “So what, he shot heroin into his face all day. Come on, haven’t you?” Most people would go, “No.” [laughs] I guess that’s just being biased. But those two things have been interesting, to me at least. I wish everyone involved well. … There’s nobody fun in Europe right now. They’re in a lull, they could use somebody, for my dough. I gotta read that Q magazine every time, and the Gallagher brothers [in Oasis] are the only guys left running their mouths. 

Paste: I’ve seen you play a lot of times, and you always seem to tell different stories about the same thing, which is always entertaining, but what’s the biggest lie you’ve ever told onstage? 

Snider: I would say people would be really surprised to know how much of it was true, but there’s a lot of bullshit in there as well. I mean, [if I tell you], some of ’em might really crush somebody, like if they really loved a story, they’d go, “Awww, God, I can’t even listen to him again.” I’m going to go politics here and try and think of a safe one. Let’s see, I’m trying to think of a story here. … God, it just doesn’t feel right! [laughs] The only thing that feels right is to say, “Of course some of it’s bullshit. But if I show you exactly where the rabbit is, there’s no point in even bringing the hat next time!” What I always say is, “Almost everything I say is true.” In fact, I’m working on a book right now called Almost Everything I Say Is True. And I’m actually gonna tell the stories, and then I’m going to tell what’s real and what’s not. I got this guy named Dennis Cook, and he writes about The Black Crowes all the time, and him and I are going to get together and pick the 10 longest, most-told stories [of mine], and get them typed out, and then I’m going to give him the phone numbers of all the people I mention. And I’m gonna say, “Now, go hear the real story, and then you can come back and hit me like a lawyer, and write about your experience.” I’m going to tell him where the bodies are buried. [laughs] I’m looking forward to that. 

Paste: Have you started it yet? 

Snider: It’s funny, the first step was, there’s this bootleg [of me] called Tales From Moondog’s Tavern, and it’s got a pretty decent version of, I don’t know, maybe 18 or 20 stories. I don’t know if it’s got all of ’em, but it’s got a bunch of ’em, and so that’s going to show up at his house this morning, I believe. I think we’re going to start with the story I tell about going out to the Devil’s Backbone Tavern, and I’m going to give him Trog’s phone number. 

Paste: Do you have that still?! 

Snider: Yeah, I still talk to Trog. [laughs] And [Dennis] is gonna go to the Backbone Tavern, and there was three other guys in the car—you know, in the story I say, “So me and Trog and a bunch of his buddies…” And I’m going to give him the numbers of those buddies, and he’ll figure it out. Then, he’s gonna come back. Hopefully by the time he’s done writing the book, he’ll have only figured out some of it. 

Paste: That’s hilarious. I always figured characters from your songs—people like Trog that you’ve met—were maybe people that came in and out of your life, or that you didn’t speak to anymore. 

Snider: [laughs] No, Digger Dave’s in prison. Moondog’s dead of course. But I especially love Trog. He’s an old friend of the family, and he’s a lot bigger now than he was then. [laughs] 

Paste: I’ve got one more question for you before you go—on the new record, there’s a lyric from the chorus of “Greencastle Blues”: “How do you know when it’s too late to learn?” How do you know when it’s too late to learn? 

Snider: I don’t know, I truly don’t. In fact, that was a very honest question for me to be asking because I felt so silly. I was a 42-year-old guy in a jail cell, and I was the oldest person there. I was older than the sheriff, so I felt a little ridiculous. If you can’t learn how to not smoke the weed, you could at least learn how to not get caught doing it. Man, that was a stupid thing. But let’s see, how do you know when it’s too late to learn? I’ll think of a fun answer. Honey? Honey? [Snider puts down the phone and consults with his wife, who’s in the room] Honey, when do you know when it’s too late to learn? Anything? This could be the pull quote. [laughs] Hmmm. Pretty frankly, when you’re in prison, I guess. Right? [laughs] If you’re in prison for life, that’s it. I guess I ended up with a theory—you’d have to have cancer or be in prison for life, other than that you still got a shot. Thank God, I got a shot still! Today’s the day. I’m pretty clear that it's not—I don’t think it’s “blowing in the wind.”

Paste: The answer is not “blowin’ in the wind.” 

Snider: Nope. That theory has been explored.