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[Editor's note: This essay is the cover story for Paste's February issue. This version contains corrections.]
In 1966, John T. Elson posed a dangerous question. The Time magazine editor, in a now-legendary essay, asked: Is God dead? “It is a question that tantalizes both believers, who perhaps secretly fear that he is, and atheists, who possibly suspect that the answer is no,” he wrote. Spelled out in red letters on the magazine’s bible-black cover, the question aroused dismay and dissent in newspaper editorials, family rooms and sacristies across the country, despite the fact that Elson skirted a definitive answer to his own loaded query.
Ten years later, another question was posed, though much less formally. In the 1970s and into the ’80s, beneath the surface of a placid mainstream culture, a growing mass in shredded clothes, with flailing bodies and untamed voices welled up, howling in unison: Are we dead? This movement started in scattered urban centers and then spread, flourishing on obscure LPs and in the black-and-white photocopied pages of fan-made ’zines, traded like fine tea from the Orient. It took refuge on low-frequency college radio stations, where DJs blasted the gospel of those wild men and women to listeners who scrawled their own parables with their own furious bands. God may have been usurped in the ’60s, but these kids were baring their teeth, sharpening their knives, preparing to slaughter the idol that rose in God’s place, the slicked-smooth supreme being of Pop. They wouldn’t make money doing it, they wouldn’t be famous, they wouldn’t fit in—and they not only braced themselves against these realities, they adopted them as their core tenets, their creed.
In 2010, we again find ourselves in strange times. More than 20 years have passed since the punk movement and its offspring ground a steel-toed boot into the shin of America’s cultural consciousness, and in that time we’ve seen it rise up, triumph and retreat in an endless cycle, each time leaving shards of itself behind to float or sink in the mainstream. What we’ve called it has never been stable—it’s been known alternately as “punk” for its early attitude, “underground” for where it happened, “alternative” when the mainstream held it up as an antidote to its own poison—each of these picked up then sloughed off when the semantic baggage grew too unwieldy.
Most recently, “indie”—long thrown around as a signifier of how it got done (i.e. independently)—has become the nom du jour. “When I first heard the term ‘indie rock,’ it was about business practices,” says Slim Moon, who came of age as a punk fan in the 1980s, founded the Kill Rock Stars label in the ’90s, and now helms Shotclock Management out of Portland, Ore. “Major labels being publicly held corporations, their primary motive has to be to make money for stockholders. And the distinctions that I think indie labels were trying to make was, ‘We’re independent of that system so we have lots of reasons for doing this: We’re doing this for politics, we’re doing this for cool factor, we’re doing it for aesthetics, we’re doing it for community, but we’re not just doing it for money.’”
Of course, the term “indie” is troubled now, too. Indie is, at once, a genre (of music first, and then of film, books, video games and anything else with a perceived arty sensibility, regardless of its relationship to a corporation), an ethos, a business model, a demographic and a marketing tool. It can signify everything, and it can signify nothing. It stands among the most important, potentially sustainable and meaningful movements in American popular culture—not just music, but for the whole cultural landscape. But because it was originally sculpted more in terms of what it opposed than what it stood for, the only universally held truth about “indie” is that nobody agrees on what it means.
We have several forces to thank for this growing, increasingly toxic confusion: a mainstream culture never above poaching; a precariously teetering music industry; an Internet booming harder than the Old West, with less rules and more cowboy posturing; plus, an aging movement whose original mix of urgent otherness and charming hubris has—for many members of its second generation—simmered down to solipsism and entitlement.
There’s this old parable, the tale of the blind men and the elephant. The men are asked to describe the enormous creature based on how it feels; the one who touches its trunk says an elephant is like a giant snake, the one who touches its tail says it’s like a rope, the one who touches its leg says it’s like a tree trunk, and so on. No one can see the whole beast, no one can feel it all, no one can tell what it is. Indie has become this elephant, and its attendants—its fans, practitioners and detractors—are the blind men, grasping for the truth about a creature that’s growing bigger all the time. It looms so increasingly large as to obscure its own hugeness—a writhing, hydra-headed beast that renders itself nearly invisible by filling up our entire field of vision. It’s a limping, disoriented creature unsure of its own nature.
And so today we ask yet another question: Is indie dead?
When Elson wrote his Time essay in 1966, he was responding to a sense of spiritual ennui gripping not only America but most of the West; a kind of grand-scale parochial identity crisis some 2,000 years in the making. In particular he was responding to Friedrich Nietzsche’s assertion, more than 80 years prior, that God is dead—not that there had never been a God, but that there had been, and that we as humans had done away with him. When everything God offered—moral context, stability, certainty—had been questioned, abused or found elsewhere, when the idea of and word “God” no longer necessitated power, Nietzsche proffered that God as a force, as a being, became irrelevant, meaningless, hollow.
Dead.
Elson wrote of some believers who accepted God’s death as truth but chose to continue as if nothing was different, just to maintain the order of their lives and the world. Indie is an artistic ideal, not a world religion, so while it faces the same dilemma—as a word that once meant so much, and still does to some, but has virtually lost all meaning and may now be doing more harm than good—there’s no need to be so careful. We can tear down this idol with reckless abandon because, to our question, there is a concrete answer: Indie is dead. It has killed itself.

Behind The Sky: Technological Progress and Indie…
Rogue Wave - Live at Moog

Couldn't have been said any better. I've felt that "Indie-Rock" has been on its death bed for the past year or so. The line between what we formerly had known as Indie and mainstream has become fuzzed out and distorted to the point where we suddenly have an "Indie" band like Vampire Weekend at the very TOP!? of the Billboard charts, and other bands constantly seen on blogs like this paraded nightly to the unknowing American public on Letterman and Conan. Sad, yet true sign of the times. Indie has died on an overdose of its own medicine.
Great essay. Full of relevant references, authority, and history. I appreciate the thoroughness and insight. (Personally, I have never used the term "indie rock" to describe anything whatsoever, but I can't say that I have a better alternative, no pun intended.)
fantastic essay.
an identity crisis has gripped the music industry... HARD. the globalization of pretty much everything is making labels, bands, individuals etc. grasp for the things that will define them as independent or as individuals in their form of expression. but now everyone is trying to do the same thing and its become even further undefined.
i sense rebellion in the near future.
Just like "alternative" before it, "indie" has gone mainstream, which is neither an unexpected nor a bad thing. Just as you shouldn't condemn a minor league player for joining the majors, you shouldn't condemn an "underground" artist/performer for embracing the limelight and reaping the rewards that come with it. No one should want to toil in obscurity forever. That said, there will always be an underground and an alternative to mainstream art and entertainment, fueled by artists of independent spirit. Perhaps we need a different name for indie. "Undie"? Probably not, but something will turn up.
Not trying to toot my horn here, because that wouldn't be very indie of me, but I wrote a book attempting to answer this very question. It's even named after a Pavement album and has the word indie in the title. It's not even six months old yet, but I guess it flew under the radar. That's more indie, yes? So, if anyone's interested in further reading on the topic: Slanted and Enchanted: The Evolution of Indie Culture (Henry Holt, 2009).
Kaya, I saw your post on Twitter about this earlier—it must've totally flown under the radar because I would've loved to have read it when I was working on the story. Going to get my hands on a copy soon as I'm able.
It seems to me this article really blurs the line between indie and underground. Maybe you should separate the two and reevaluate the argument, because the underground still exists and will always exist. I also think it's a grave failure to lump every indie label act as indie. Do M.I.A. and Twin Stumps really deserve to be lumped into one category? Maybe you should research and offer more examples outside of the obvious big name indie acts and then come to a different, or at least more middle of the road, conclusion about the current state of indie rock.
Or we could just quit worrying about how to label artists and music, but then you wouldn't have a story to write about melodramatic themes such as the death of indie rock.
Um, Jessie, I know it's a long essay, but did you actually read it all the way through? The essay deals with all that and more. And "underground" is just another label to debate the definition of. I think this essay does a wonderful job of addressing all the tensions. The back-and-forth is dizzying but spot on.
I think the point to be seen in all of this wondering and thinking and writing is...don't listen to anyone else when it comes to what you listen to...just listen to what takes you to that place.
Mmmmmm... this lit my brain candle.
I liked this article the first time it appeared, two months ago in another online pub, and when (I'd like to think, as I wrote it) it got to the point a lot faster:
http://www.stereosubversion.com/features/indie-rock-r-i-p-2005-11-11-2009/
can't believe somebody actually took the time to write 6 pages of this. awful, awful stuff
good luck with your book deal, lady. you're really on your way to becoming the next amanda petrusich!
Jon, I didn't come across your story when I was working on mine (and I'm certainly not under the impression that I'm the first to suggest indie has outgrown or outlived itself), so thanks for that link. Mine is longer than yours in part because I go into a few more aspects of the issue than just the matter of mainstream exposure/commercial success—we're making the same point, just in different ways.
Kaya, just wanted to say I read your book, and it was excellent.
For the record, I predicted this in Dec of 2006. =)
http://futureisfiction.com/blog/http:/futureisfiction.com/blog/stop-the-genrefication/
http://forums.hipinion.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4069
Sorry if this has already been pointed out... the 6th paragraph on page 4: "And the the complaint does seem salient right now."
Rachael, there are journalists in Mexico who are being kidnapped and murdered in search of reporting violent drug cartels. Maybe think about that before you write another lame culturally self-aggrandizing non-story about a niche whose death concerns no one and affects nothing.
Nice work Rachael. Well written and insightful. There is so much depth here, that I don't know where to start.
I come to "Indie" from the "Alternative" and "New Wave" movements, stretching back toward "Punk" and even the "edger" (please don't shoot me, Jim Jarmusch!) side of classic rock.
I guess these labels serve some purpose for someone, but not me. I'm not saying I'm impervious or above the influence of labels. When I hear the term "Indie Rock Snob", I tend to get defensive. Probably, due more to the good qualities I , personally, associate with Indie, and less due to the fact that there are, indeed, quite a few "Indie Rock" snobs out there. Along with "American Idol" snobs, and "Jazz" snobs, etc.
No, the label thing hasn't worked for me in a long time. At the height of my record buying days, I bought many a disc based on heady reviews and "next big thing" status. When reviewers compared a record to another record or artist I loved, it was all the more frustrating, after paying full retail price for said article, to find that I'd been robbed. Oh, yes, this moves me, but THIS...
So, these days I'm less concerned with cultural phenoms, the latest craze, the top ten records of the decade, or the next wave (as much as I enjoy reading "top 10" lists). In my world, music is either good or bad. Which is to say that, if I like it, it's good, otherwise, well..., if it works for you that's great, but I'm not buying the latest ___________ even if Rolling Stone, Time, Paste, and all the rest give it 5 stars, 100, or two thumbs up. If it doesn't MOVE me in some way, then I'll pass.
I'm not dumping on reviewers. I consider rock journalism, at its highest level, as art. Like all great art, it has the ability to inspire, or get me thinking, or move me emotionally.
I just bought two new albums (that's MP3 downloads for some of you) based on reviews here at Paste. Before I bought them, I visited the website of the artists and listened first. I no longer choose to be passive when it comes to critical hyperbole.
So, if you must label, go ahead. It won't affect me. I'll continue to call it as I see it.
well, the answer to that is clear. the unknown band of some anonymous web commenter is next!! tiny pupils forever
This article reminds me of the blank canvas with a single black stripe hanging in a modern art museum where critics say the artist is so great because "this genius work captures "
Who really cares what category music should fall into?
"Authentic" music should only be defined as music that is what the artist alone wants to produce. Period.
If this artist is loved by just 300 people, fine. If the artist is discovered by 300 million people, fine. Being discovered by the masses doesn’t make them any less authentic.
The people who turn on a favorite artist as soon as someone they consider un-cool knows about them are no better than the ones who love the Disney manufactured 'stars' singing committee written music through voice-processors trying to make $$$$ before they outgrow their cute kid status.
Music is supposed to move your soul. Like the music because it feels good to listen to, not because you think it's cool to like it.
"this genius work captures .."
above should have also said
"this genius work captures INSERT ART SNOB DRIVEL HERE"
I think some of the commenters are failing to read this terrific, well-researched essay before commenting. If they did, they'd see that their criticisms are addressed in the essay itself.
Let me add that Rachael does a great job of exposing the difficulty, and ultimate futilty, of labeling music, "Indie" or otherwise, with this article.
My comment was meant as an expression of agreement.
Let me clarify...
I'm not trashing Rachael personally (I love her artist and album reviews generally) or the article itself.
I'm more commenting on the basic argument of "What is Indie?" and the fact that people can spend HOURS arguing the point.
excellent essay. i agree that indie, as a term to describe an aesthetic does seem to be dead.
however there is a broader, humanistic idea in the indie movement that is timeless.
independence in art is simply the individual asserting itself through homogeneity, which can come through forces of economics, politics and human behavior. in mozart's time it was religious oppression. in the beatles' time it was cultural assimilation. in the last 30 years, punk and indie rock rose in reaction to corporate wealth through formula.
or maybe it's just that there are two kinds of art: good and bad.
Believe it or not, people can disagree with something on Paste. Shock! Gasp! I know it's hard to believe, but this is something I don't agree with. I'll argue the well researched part. Anyone can take ten minutes to research which indie labels are distributed through major distribution channels. Take another five minutes to find out which artists are on said label and voila! Then, find the biggest names in indie rock you can think of and find out what they've done in pop culture in the past decade. Add some opinion and you've got yourself an article. My point is that for every one Vampire Weekend there are dozens of Mayyors, Home Blitz and Part Chimps out there. Yea, some people have made it, so therefore all underground is just dead.
I sorry, what where you writing? This tripe is right in league with the "For Dummies" series. Wow you really blew the lid off one here...
Since this keeps coming up, I want to address it: I in no way believe, and once never asserted in the essay, that underground or independently-produced music is a thing of the past. That would be patently ridiculous. The idea of making music outside the bounds of corporate structures is older than corporate structures themselves, and just like there were artists making music on truly-independent labels (like Stax and Sun, among others) before the term "indie" came around, there are artists making music in just the same way now, and there always will be.
It's just that the most common term used to describe what they're doing ("indie") doesn't really WORK anymore, but it's being used by more and more people all the time as if it's truly meaningful and important. (And as an aside, as a music fan and a music writer, I'm well aware of the slipperiness and sometimes-pointlessness of "labeling" music—even the most solidly-defined genres encapsulate wildly-variant artists. On a personal level, I don't think anyone should be concerned with what music they love is called. But when you get into talking to other people about it, especially on a mass scale, descriptive terms become pretty necessary.)
For what it's worth, I also never argue that Vampire Weekend is in any way responsible for the death of indie. Regardless of their mainstream success, they are actually on a truly-independent label (XL) and self-produced that album—so if anything, they could be considered an argument for the viability and importance of independently-produced music (although many would balk at that, I know).
And Jessie, you're welcome to disagree with anything we write—we more than welcome it. I think you and I are generally on the same page about the continued importance of independent music (which is something I know I didn't get into too much in the actual story, but it was already long enough…) But this was written (and researched for more than fifteen minutes, I assure you) in part to generate discussion about what this term and idea means today. And that's what we're doing. So that's great.
FYI, Grizzly Bear is on Warp and Warp is distributed by Red Eye, which is most definitely an independent distributor. Might want to fact check.
I'll admit I didn't read the whole thing thoroughly.
But, isn't labeling just a simple way of categorizing? Sure there are the "hipsters" who take it to the extreme. But "indie" will never be dead. When asked what type of music I like, I will always respond with "indie." Why? Because...
A) It is a lot easier than saying "I like punk influenced African beat pop music" or "garage rock with a twang"
B) Most people understand what you mean
C) Those people that don't understand will ask; and you've set up a nice little conversation starter
Hey Rachel, maybe us ONTD-ers would actually READ your article if it.. you know.. said anything new and wasn't just the usual contrived hipster bullshit that you find in most issues [if not all] issues of spin and other hipster rags. But nice try though. And I especially like the little broken hipster glasses. I hope someday you realize your dream and write something worthy of our time.
10 responses by music blogs on the question, is Indie Dead? http://flavorwire.com/66341/is-indie-dead-music-critics-respond
tl;dr
I like the idea of giving up "indie" as a genre, but if we replace it with "alternative" we invoke the sounds of crappy rock like Daughtry, Nickelback, Creed, etc. so that's a no-go for me.
Tressers, you're right. Sorry we let that slip by. It's been corrected in the story—thanks!
For anyone who's interested in reading a little more, here's an extended response to the feeback (so far) to the essay, which builds on a few points I've already made in the comments above: http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2010/02/im-not-sad-about-death-cab-and-other-notes-from-i.html.
Good and insightful article, but it's pretty funny that your reference for indie's characteristic "punk authenticity" was the fucking sex pistols. Good one.
“If it’s cool, creative and different, it’s indie.” That sentence is perfectly fine if you put some additional quotes in and change the capitalization: “If it’s ‘cool’, ‘creative’ and ‘different’, it’s Indie.” Our world’s too big to Live without generalizations and generalizations don’t work without clichés and clichés are defined by the majority. Thank God / Major Labels for the definitions so that our presskits can point to something recognizable and we know what part of the iTunes store to browse.
I’m not an Indie artist – I don’t particularly like the sound. I guess I AM an “indie” artist. I’m DIY, Live out of my car to do what I want to do, make my own artwork, website and occasionally the instruments that I play. I’ve got no label or any means of support outside of my music and art, so I’ve been accused of having a punk rock sensibility. But I’m inspired by metal, which I play on an acoustic guitar, which then makes me folk.
In an increasingly complex world, as artists we should be aware of those around us and what’s come before us but no-one can claim to be even fully aware of their peers, much less all the artists who’ve culminated in the sound and sensibility of their current work. We can hate the corporate ownership, but as business people we should be thankful that someone’s put a definition to the derivative music that sounds like… well… like “Indie Rock”. You can actually use the term in your presskit (er… EPK or myspace page) and anyone vaguely cognizant of their sonic surroundings will know what you’re talking about.
Beautifully written article, pointing out that yep… it’s a cyclical problem of revolution and assimilation and revolution against assimilation. And when we ask ourselves what we’re going to do about it it’s always the same answer: either quibble over semantics and ownership over words that are truly owned by the majority and common agreement – OR continue to find our voices, acknowledging but never being defined SOLELY by what has come before us.
I say “Indie is dead - long Live indie”. Don’t be afraid of those extra syllables. Say what you mean. I’m an independent artist and very, very proud of it.
Brilliant essay.
Good essay!
The only problem with it is your
"Blind Men and the Elephant" usage. This explanation of God/religion uses faulty logic. If everyone is a blind man and cannot see the whole elephant, how would you know that fact unless you yourself are not blind?
In other words, using this parable to explain that no one knows the full truth about God and therefore cannot make a Universal Truth claim is in and of itself a Universal Truth claim, because you're saying that you hold the very same knowledge and perspective that you claim no one else has.
This argument is often used to support agnosticism, but it fails, and it's use in this essay about indie falls flat for the same reason.
The lazy, over-empowered 90's "millenials" have tried to pass off their lack of talent, technical skill, and work ethic as a form of rebellion.. exploiting some vague punk ethos that no longer holds any relevance. In so doing, the quality of Independent music has plummeted. We've traded substance for scene. "Independence" is an attitude. "Indie" is stupid. And it's not dead. It never existed beyond a simple, trite, social bargaining chip.
This s the greatest article written about indie that I have ever read since the term started being thrown around. Thank you Paste. So spot on! I thought the elephant analogy was particularly apt.
Off topic, but I cannot believe that Atlantic Monthly article is still being quoted. When is that thing going to die? Michael Hirschorn is a modern jackass who makes the worst of the worst- VH1's reality shows- and he certainly did take umbrage with quirk. He's part of the population that problematically mistakes sincerity for quirk. It's a new era and people don't, or rather they shouldn't, expect a huge dose of cynicism to weigh us down in our entertainment. Young people today aren't as hearty as the punk era. And we know it. With no American Dream to look forward to, we want to be mired in authentic artists who seem like they sincerely have our best interests at heart. The death of indie is like that- caused by these same types that are seeking forms of art that don't really make us doubt ourselves and the world any more than we already do. That went right over Hirschorn's head. The article lamented against Miranda July for fuck's sake. The worst part is that he put Ira Glass at the center of it. How the hell can you find anything bad to say about Ira Glass? And people are *still* referring to that AM, even here, even now, years later.
Ira fired back on a radio interview- "The Atlantic Monthly put the show and me personally at the center of a national movement of quirk, and I hate that. Honestly, I gotta say, that may be what the show seems like to that guy, but I hate stuff that is kitchy, or thinks of itself as quirky. I feel like that takes real people that are three dimensional and just turns them into cartoons. And I feel that in fact [This American Life's] mission and what we're trying to do is exactly the opposite. We want the people to be exactly life size... Like, the whole point of the stories is that we relate to the people, and like, not in an ironic way; it's not an ironic take. Sometimes I see the show being described as ironic and I feel like it's not ironic- it's such an utterly. Fucking. Sincere show, you know what I mean? And like, I thought it's transparent that you could tell, we are putting these people on because we are interested in them and we relate to them in an utterly obvious way... So the fact that someone could watch the tv show, or hear the radio show, and interpret it the completely opposite way, indicates...well number one it indicates that not everyone in the audience is going to take something the way you mean it, but, you know...that doesn't indicate a failure in our craft."
to me there is always technically gonna be "indie" cuz there are thousands of unsigned bands out there doing things individually. but now the point is that indie is described as a sound in this age. to me indie is just music that is made with more control from the artists who make the music unlike other artists in major record labels who may hire top producers to make their music.
the "indie" bands that have reached mainstream success are in fact just bands. it's simple as this indie today is just now a sound unlike anything in the top 40 charts today because artists that are "indie" usually have more creative control of the music they are making instead of hiring top producers so a song can make it in the top 40. we don't have a word to define artists that take risks and do everything for themselves so we settled on "indie". i sorta agree but disagree with the fact that yes the so called "indie" bands we love are getting mainstream attention and it seems hypocritical but to me is that the music they are making tends to be more creative or experimental because they are not making music that will make millions of dollars but are making something for themselves and somehow the got the attention of others who thought it was cool or different. to me it shouldn't matter how sucessful your favorite "indie" band is because they are in fact getting more people to listen to different music then what is on the top 40 chart. if you're a musician who hasn't got attention and it's thrown at you of course you're gonna take it you can't live under a damn rock forever just for the sake of being cool and ironic.
Indie Dead? Indie is an idea. A feeling. Indie is what you make out of it. So can something die that lives within that is part of you. I think not. So is Indie dead. one word NO!!! Is it what is use to be. No but it is what each and everyone one of us make out of it and that is what is important.
To "Indie"
Isn't this what you wanted?
To change the world from it's crappy homogenized, civilized, stylized, synthesized self?
So what if "indie" isn't independent of the masses anymore?
What if the sensibilities of the masses were what you were really always fighting for?
You're looking inward in that post-modern self-conscious agency.
Your wanting to keep the bath water, and throw out the baby.
Look around you! Give your self an ironic pat on the back.
The word is useless, but the meaning's intact.
You wanted reform, change, authenticity and equality for all.
Or did you just want democracy and inventiveness to sound a rebellion call?
Indie, isn't this what you wanted?
Or were you just a counter to the machine?
You built it just right, but you're letting it rust.
So overwhelmed in your quirky self-loathing post-modern lust.
Indie, you were just itching for a fight.
But your trapped by the terrifying responsibility of getting it right.
You accidental god, you.
Said like a champion - its nice to have articulated thoughts that you've had in your head for years. The question is, what's the alternative? Music culture moves so quickly, I don't even feel like there's something tangible enough for anyone to rebel against - if indie is now a molting sludge of different and equally defensible sensibilities, then what in the hell do you mount a new attack against?
K
I am old enough to remember the punk explosion in the late 1970s, and it seems to me a problem with a lot of so-called "indie" bands now is that their music is derivative (or annoying or boring) and their songs aren't about anything. I loyally download each Paste sampler, hoping to find a band that smacks me over the head the way the Sex Pistols or Elvis Costello did back in the day. Haven't found one yet. Mopers and Mumblers are a bore. Who's going to step up and be the Johnny Rotten of this decade?
provocative and thought provoking article. My question though, indie has been mainstream by your own admission for awhile, you site the earliest seasons of Greys Anatomy, we could go all the way back to 2003 though, with the first season of The OC, and then Garden State in 2004. So thats what, 6, 7 years now, of increasingly mainstream attention for indie. What other genre has lasted that long, when the commercial interests came a callin'? Certainly not grunge. When Liz Claiborne started a grunge fashion line and the NY Times printed that grunge vocab starter, how much longer did grunge last?
The point is, yeah, you are right, indie is mainstream now. But, this is hardly old news. Its news thats over half a decade old. If indie were at its death bed, on its final legs, breathing its final breath, shouldnt that have been the day The OC premiered? Or the day Greys used those singer songwriters you mentioned? For a genre that is so dead, its sure taken a long time to die out.
Just in the last few days, Arcade Fire, who created maybe the finest work of art in indie rock, in its modern incarnation with Funeral in 2004, used Wake Up in an ad for the NFL. And Grizzly Bear's Two Weeks was used to sell a Volkswagen, in a commercial that featured Stevie Wonder and Tracy Morgan.
Yet, despite this, is anyone denying that Arcade Fire's third record, and Grizzly Bears Veckitimist follow up, will be greeted with anything less than praise of biblical proportions?
Who can survive without corporate America? I think we all want to, some of us desire not to, I am one of those. But, in this economic state of mind, it is very difficult to stay afloat with the heavy iron fist of a corporate company looming above you with millions up their sleeve.
I think this article is great. Good, but it touches such a bigger issue than just the term indie. I think one needs to reflect why so many bands and labels are now under corporate ownership or influence. The system in this economy and cultural norms is demeaning and overall destructive to the true indie at heart - the true do-it-yourself guy.
It is even possible to really reach an audience with a DIY structure? Perhaps these "indie-influenced " bands need the iron fist of companies like Warner to distribute their music. Bands should really expose the workings of how music is made and distributed. Then give an alternative to its fans. An DIY, indie, corporate-free option for fans. Would people follow that direction? Would enough people support that direction to keep the band going financially?
This is a really well-written article though that touches a tun of sides that might be easily overlooked in your other online music news sources. Some really great watercolor illustrations too. Anyone that enjoys this article, please don't hesitate to pick up the book, Consumed by Barber.
I do think this articles is a little too much about genre vocabulary and elitism. I personally hate music genres. I really never fully understand them, and I don't have the motivation to take the time to understand them. I like what I like, - is usually what I say in replacement of music genres if someone asks me what I like. This article even touches on the idea of elitism, which is usually always overlooked in the music arena, because it is such a big part of it, and no one likes to admit it. I'll touch on that subject shortly, in my next post.
You lost me at "electronica".
I finally read it today... Someone gets it!!!
Thank you for stating so eloquently what so many worried music lovers have struggled to express.
While whoever wrote this dreck has a future in making a mountain out of a molehill pretty well covered, the author makes a huge error in comparing "Indie Rock" to God. Whether civilization divorced our values from a supreme being had profound implications for every person on the planet, and a few off the planer as well.
Whether "Indie Rock" is dead because some hipster/poseur band got signed to Universal has implications for no one besides that band, who now might be able to buy food as long as they don't snort the money away. Hipster types might find the discussion useful...but I seem to remember a similar sellout complaint every time a geek band gets big or gets signed. The author would have loved being around in the Grunge Era however, but she probably would have had to find something else to write about. This idea was done about 10 times back then. If only Google searched pre internet, a good editor might have saved us all another 30 minutes of this.
To the writer, you have talent...find something better and relevant to get passionate about. You might make a difference.
To Paste...this is the dumbest thing you've ever published. You killed trees for this?
To Indie snobs with geek glasses... with America reeling from hunger and joblessness, 250,000 Haitians dead from a disaster, God might not like your obsession with labeling. You might want to stop that before you meet him. Or he'll turn you into gooey red hot badness forever.
I hate to quote Shia LaBeouf, but he made a good point when he said : My generation will actually be the first generation that is tamer than the one that came before it, and it will probably be poorer; less fun and less money. It's ridiculous. In my parents' generation, rebellion was pop culture. It's not anymore. You can see it in something as simple as where their music was at and where ours is now.
Life is very flippant now. We are on the verge of becoming nothing more than professional consumers.
'Indie' used to refer to a label type and it still should. 'Indie Rock' become the hip up-and-coming style of music. Then as the mainstream started catching on and marketing types tried to push their wares, the 'indie' term has become the catch phrase like 'alternative' was in the 90s. That doesn't make it right.
'Indie' is only used by those to describe a musical GENRE by people who don't truly understand musical genres. 'Indie Rock' and 'Indie Pop' are genres, as are post-punk, shoegaze and noise pop.
Now that indie is more a sound, what's going to happen to actual indie music?
I agree with the fact that indie rock is a buzz word that doesn't really mean much at this point but this essay seemed to drag on. It's sounds so whiny. Some of these people are all about trying to claim a band as their own. I heard them first... that's my band... I'm practically in the band cause I discovered them. Now I don't like the band cause everyone else knows who they are. What is that all about? Shut the hell up!
A much better and more realistic article on "indie."
http://pitchfork.com/features/articles/7704-the-decade-in-indie/
just because its popular doesn't mean it is bad. I DO NOT like this philosophy Indie culture. I do like the approach and whats it aiming for. Its about the music, if some band is still producing great music, then let it be for music's sake...stop generalizing them into one group. Its not cool. and Indie is dead because its not cool anymore. its very irrational nowadays!
I never thought Indie was a direct branch off from punk. To get punk listeners from "back in the day" to listen to indie is the same as showing prehistoric fish modern day birds. The kind of music considered "Punk" now is in no comparison to older bands like the Sex Pistols. Punk had its hay-day, and is starting to die, not as indie, but as modern day "Punk" (ex: Rise Against, Green Day, Good Charlotte). The reason why Indie is having trouble being classified as "Alternative" is because of other bands that are mainstream and want the label "Alternative" (ex: My Chemical Romance, Avenged Seven Fold, Breaking Benjamin). If bands like those are starting to take up the Alternative genre, it gives Alternative a whole new meaning. If Alternative used to mean unclassifiable, it now means mainstream rock/punk bands who are too cool to be the big name genres. Where does that leave Indie bands? Putting Neutral Milk Hotel and Arcade Fire in the same genre as Story of the Year is a disgrace to everything the Indie community stands for. I believe Indie should keep its name, maybe as an ironic title, which seems to be popular among the Indie community. Even though Indie is a very diverse genre (Pavement is nothing like Neon Indian but still the same genre), it will always have its sub genres. Much like todays generation, rapidly communicating and changing unlike anything seen before, Indie music does the same. Whithin two years there could already be Genre, sub genre, sub sub genre, post sub genre, neo post sub genre, and so forth. Keeping the name Indie is more like classifying insects, there are just so many different types, but all share the same common name.
This is the best essay I've read "this year, so far!" I kid, but in all seriousness...Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly research and report on a topic/genre/word/culture that many ad-execs and industry people identify themselves with, but are too blindly smug with self-labeling actualization to investigate.
Does it really matter if indie is dead if we never really knew what it was to begin with? After reading the 'Is Indie Dead?' piece, I read the editor's letter of this same issue and thought that better summed up my own thoughts on indie: Indie is dead because it has won. "Indie" has been immersed in everything. There will always be (I hope) something counter-acting mainstream music. And though some mainstream music may be just as good, there should always be other options! I don't care about labels. I have no idea what one songwriter/ band is labeled as. If I like it, I LIKE IT. Mainstream or "other". I wish each band/musician could stand on their own and not be lumped to a label with a bunch of music that doesn't sound the same anyway. And the editor's letter of issue #60 gave me a sigh of relief with a reminder: Paste doesn't care about labels either. The good people at Paste will keep writing about the "signs of life" -- anything that deserves a mention whether it is mainstream or not. Though "Is Indie Dead?" was a well-written piece, I would have much rather had more page space in Paste for a Massive Attack, or Yeasayer or Phantogram article... you know... like a fanzine!
Nice NYU journalism final!
I doubt the general angst over indie turning out to be just another fad is anything more than a reaction to the erosion of community and communal values. Sure, you ride in the occasional critical mass, volunteer once a month at the food co-op, and the guy at the coffee shop knows just how you like your lattes, but deep down you know it's just you and your blog at the end of the day. We've triumphed the individual too much, and bought so fully into the mythology of self importance, that even our attempts at mediocrity and quirk are just sad ego-bashings against the collective wall of insurmountable indifference.