Sara Schaefer: “Are You Gonna Die Fighting For the Right to Make People Feel Shitty?”

Sara Schaefer had never seen live comedy until she got to New York City. Almost as soon as she first went to a comedy club, she found herself performing onstage. It worked out. Since then, she’s won two Emmy awards for her work at Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, appeared on Best Week Ever and Inside Amy Schumer, and is now developing a new show of her own in Los Angeles. She was recently the co-host of MTV’s late night show Nikki & Sara Live, an opportunity and experience she still relishes. Schaefer is incredibly grounded, especially for a person who works in comedy and the entertainment industry, and she handles her self-doubt like any good comic does, by writing jokes. Her first comedy album, Chrysalis, is out now.

Paste: Do you think the comedy scene [in Los Angeles] is a lot different than NY?

Sara Schaefer: I think the audiences here seem a little more supportive of something that’s different. I think it’s because there are more weirdos out here in Los Angeles. I think New Yorkers are more exhausted so they’re like, “Oh, please don’t waste my time.” A great show in any city is a great show. There’s something different out here which is backyard shows, if people just have a backyard they make it an outdoor venue. I can’t do those anymore because I get worried about the neighbors, like what if little kids hear me talk about sex and so I’m talking really quietly. I get too stressed out so I’ve made a rule, no more backyard shows.

Paste: Do you feel like as a comic you had to be in New York to write this album?

Schaefer: I didn’t have to, I’ve always been against the “have to,” like “You have to do this to be a comedian, you have to do this to make it.” Some people will say, “You have to be in the clubs. You have to go this festival, do this thing on TV.” But I’ve always wondered, “Do I have to do that?” Sometimes I think it’s best to start comedy in a smaller place to get your feet wet so when you show up in New York, you’re not really bad, you’ve at least got the basics.

Paste: The bit about dealing with summer in NY is great (“The heat in New York is tantric, it never releases…”), you had to be in NY to appreciate that.

Schaefer: Yeah, I’m glad there’s NY in the album, like peeing in the grocery store. Every single premise of every joke, that first wording is really what happened. One thing I’ve learned in standup is to keep the essence of the truth while still reworking it. I know comedians who completely fabricate stories to tell the wording of a joke they like. If you’re gonna fabricate a story, at least make it detailed. But if you’re gonna be like “I broke up with my girlfriend” and I’m like “you didn’t even have a girlfriend.” That’s rare, though. I think most people speak in truths.

Paste: Where was your first gig in NY?

Schaefer: My first real gig as a solo comedian was a place called New York Comedy Club in late 2003. It was really bad. It smelled bad, it seemed sketchy. I didn’t know what a comedy club was supposed to be like; I grew up in Virginia and I’d never even seen live comedy other than on TV. I showed up and I didn’t even have jokes, I just wrote a song, like a love/hate ballad for my cubicle at work. I worked at a law firm and it was a pretty brutal day job, I hated it and felt trapped in it but [the cubicle] was also my cubby hole, it’s where I spent most of my time. Then it was a lot of trial and error after that.

Paste: How long did you spend writing the album?

Schaefer: Well the real answer is forever, because every step you take is developing you as an artist. Specifically, the past year for sure. The material spans back to six years ago but there’s a lot of newish material because I was on the road a lot the past year. I really used the road as a way to think about that album and what I want on it. Right up until the recording I was obsessing, typing things out and even backstage being like “Say it this way.”

Paste: How would you describe your comedy?

Schaefer: I am probably what you’d consider an alt-comic, which some people may think of as a negative term. Some people, it gets back to the “have to do the clubs” because they’re doing like small bars in Brooklyn and they’re lazy. To me, those people just don’t like lazy comedians. Lazy is lazy, funny is funny. But I wasn’t doing strict set up jokes, I was doing these little performance pieces that were the length of a comedy set. I was getting good press, but it felt like crutches and I wanted to just figure out how to talk and tell a joke.

It’s a mix of storytelling and observational. It’s just me up there. I wish I could be this smooth, suave joke teller. But when it’s just you, it hurts, it brutally hurts. This is me sharing really detailed information. There’s a joke on the album I was really nervous about putting on there, it’s “Splash Mountain”. It’s really intimate information about me and when I first experienced it in my life, I’m talking about female ejaculation, I was super ashamed of it and felt I was too old to be learning things sexually, but the first time I did it, it went SO well. And now if I get the sense someone is disgusted by it I get REALLY angry like, “That’s my body!” because people are quick to be like, “TMI,” or whatever.

Paste: How do you handle discomfort onstage?

Schaefer: I’ve learned that when things aren’t going well to not mention it. Learn how to focus and not let every little sound in the audience distract you. Dealing with a heckler nine times out of ten is to ignore them, because half the time the audience can’t even hear what they’re saying. If you’re really self-aware and you work hard, rather than being lazy and never going back to listen to a set, to analyze and learn from mistakes you made, you don’t go forward, but if you do do that, you go forward leaps and bounds.

Paste: What’s off-limits for you in terms of writing comedy based on your own life?

Schaefer: I’m not trying to hurt anybody, and that’s the overlying guideline. I don’t wanna hurt someone unintentionally. I do think there is pressure, right now the dialogue is “comedians should be able to say whatever they want.” And I agree, but the whole idea of comedy is to make people laugh. But if this makes me feel bad, like are you gonna die fighting for the right to make people feel shitty? At least adjust it, evolve. I don’t know if there’s enough self-awareness in young comedians who think “I’m just gonna offend you and get a reaction because that’s better than silence and I’m important.” But is that important? I’m perplexed by that.

Paste: What about the roasts?

Schaefer: Roasts aren’t my thing, I don’t like the idea of just tearing someone apart. I don’t really watch them, I’d rather just like read what the best one-liners were because some of them are really funny, well-written jokes that are super funny. But I’m fine with them existing. I don’t know if I’m a wimp, but there are comedians who make you think, “If you don’t roast, you’re not one of us!” There is like this roasting mentality in NY, I think, of like comedians ripping each other apart backstage because they’re friends, but I’m not like that with my friends! There’s definitely a “cool factor” of roasting, but I’m like, “have fun but I don’t wanna be a part because I’ll be crying for you.”

Paste: You seem pretty hard on yourself. Do you think that helps your work ethic?

Schaefer: It’s good when I’m nervous because it does make me focus, like “get in the zone” before a show. But sometimes my negativity can be crippling and paralyzing and I can talk myself into a hole, like I’m not good enough. But I read a book that’s helped me with that, it’s called Confidence Code. It’s really great for all women, and guys, but women especially, and it talks about what confidence is and how do you get it. And my boyfriend now is starting to use the lingo, which is really funny. They do this thing, “negative automatic thoughts,” which I do a lot, instead of the positive I think the negative, like “Why didn’t I get this thing? Oh, it’s because I suck,” but really, it could be a lot of things. They call them “NATS.”

Paste: Is self-doubt more common with women?

Well, I think men get them too, but I think women have more negative thinking because we’re dealing with stereotype threats. If there’s a job description, and there are ten requirements for a job, if a woman doesn’t meet all ten, she won’t even apply. But if a man even only meets six, he’ll apply and be like, “oh, I can do that!” and get the job. So they’re called “NATS” and they fly around your head like a nat, so my boyfriend will say, “Swat those nats away, you’re doing it!” It’s been a good year of self-reflection. The second the MTV show got cancelled, I thought, “I’m gonna take over the world and move to LA!” But things didn’t quite go the way I thought they would, they moved slower. I had to say no to some big stuff, because even if it’s a great opportunity, it’s just not me. And it’s paid off, things are starting to happen.

Paste: Do you think women are just as vulgar as men?

Schaefer: They are! So cruel. If men heard the way we talk about them, they’d be devastated. We talk about their dicks. Sometimes the way men will phrase things, like talking about “this chick” at a party like “I own her.” It’s obviously not the same, because women are objectified in our culture. There’s this interesting dynamic in comedy where sometimes you’re the lone girl. One time I was in a situation where I was in a group of guys talking about feminism, and then they looked at me like, “Alright, say your grand statement, Sara!” And I felt this pressure to be clever and chime in like I represent all women. But usually in those moments I have nothing important to say. Then when I get home, I’m like a genius with a feminist manifesto in my brain I couldn’t get out at the time.

Paste: How do you maintain your cool in this industry?

Schaefer: That’s been beaten into me by reality. Sometimes you feel like it’s a race, even if it’s not. But I have found having that hustle is important. With my career, everything has been so incremental. Having that show, I was 35, and so I was like, “Thank God I’m here!” When I was on Fallon, I was like, “This is my dream come true.” Everyone on staff felt that way, even Jimmy. I learned that my path has led me the way it has because every single step has been a lesson, and, I mean, I’ll say blessing. When I get down I just have to remember I’ve had times when things were really hard. Even my worst days were better than most people’s days, and that perspective has helped a lot. Your pain is your pain, but it could always be worse.