Holly Black Talks The Prisoner’s Throne, Prince Oak’s Journey, and Writing a More Mature Jude and Cardan

Paste: I really do love, as a narrative device, the idea that certain things are hidden from the reader because characters are caught up in their own intrigue or assumptions—we don’t find out a lot of why Oak was doing in the last book until this book and it all has to retroactively fit together in a way that makes sense. How difficult was that to write/keep track of for you as the one wrangling everything?

Black: The motivations themselves weren’t difficult to come up with, since I had to know why Oak was doing those things in the first place (and had, in fact, written the prologue for this book while writing The Stolen Heir). 

On the other hand, it’s not always easy to know when revealing motivations feels organic rather than forced. And most of all, it’s important that those reveals make the story more interesting rather than less, so I needed to find the balance.

 Paste: You’ve spoken before about how you sometimes conceived of Wren’s story as an echo or a reveal of Jude’s—for all the similarities between them she makes very different choices. Do you see Oak’s journey as being the same kind of emotional reflection as anyone else’s? Or is his story really more of its own thing for you?

Black: Wren and Jude share certain interesting similarities, though they are very different people—they’re both changelings of a sort, but while Jude was a mortal raised in Faerie and trying to find her place in it, Wren was a faerie raised by mortals before being stolen back by faeries, so she feels as though she has no place at all. Jude came to crave power while Wren avoided it. As Wren moves into power, though, it becomes less clear how much they are mirrors and how much they are opposites.

Oak’s journey has less specific reflection. I think of him as a product of the decisions that we saw various family members make during the Folk of the Air series. He has been coddled and protected by Oriana, to the point that she’s willing to throw a lot away to keep him safe. Madoc wanted to use him to get the Blood Crown and then rule through him000a gift of sorts, but a very dangerous one. And his sisters made sacrifices—especially Jude and Vivi—to keep him from having a childhood as traumatic as their own. But at the end of the day, his childhood was still traumatic. There were wars fought, in part, because of him. His birth involved being cut out of the body of his dying mother while poisoned himself (poisoned by his birth father, I might add). Madoc is in exile because of him. And everyone around him is telling him that he will be High King one day. That’s a lot! Plus, despite being raised by the schemiest schemers who ever schemed, his family expects him not to be a schemer himself. The inevitable surprise is coming for them.

 Paste: Tell me a little about Wren’s journey in this sequel and how you see the evolution of her feelings for Oak. (Poor little tortured murderous babies!) 

Black: The Stolen Heir is in many ways a villain origin story. Wren starts out the book as one of the kindest characters I think I’ve ever written. She’s also feral, quite shy, and used to living on her own. Over the course of the book, she discovers her own power and embraces her own rage. 

The Prisoner’s Throne allows her the chance to decide who she is going to be and what she’s going to do, now that so many choices are hers. Will she become as cruel as the people who once were cruel to her? Will she allow herself to be known and loved? Will she accept that someone can love her, when she has felt the weight of so many rejections, or will she decide she’d rather have an imprisoned lover who never gets a choice?

Paste: Oak constantly struggles with the sort of public, performative idea of himself versus the person he thinks he is (Or who he wants to become/see himself as). Where, for you, does the truth of who he is lie? How does his journey reflect this inner struggle?

Black: I think we are what we do, far more than what we say or what we think. But for Oak, what he does is so hidden that people reflect back to him the person that he presents and that makes him feel not just alone, but without a clear sense of self.

Allowing Wren to see him—and finding that even when he doesn’t allow it, she’s good at seeing him anyway—represents a huge shift toward seeing himself more clearly. He needs to move toward a place where he allows for the possibility that the people who love him don’t just love him conditionally, and to do that, he has to be more honest, even if the idea of that is somewhat horrifying.

Paste: How did you feel writing an older, more experienced Cardan and Jude—and from the perspective of someone outside their relationship, as well? They have, by now, as the kids say, clearly seen some shit, was it difficult to figure out how they might have grown and changed in the years since we last saw them? 

Black: They have, indeed, seen some shit. It’s a pleasure to write them being comfortable together and in their position as rulers. And it’s interesting to discover the ways they still didn’t see eye-to-eye on certain topics—as well as the ways they know each other so well that they don’t need to give much explanation for even fairly surprising-to-others actions.

Paste: As much as this feels like a possible ending to Wren and Oak’s story, it doesn’t feel at all like the end of this story of Faerie. Any plans to write more in the Folk of the Air universe or perhaps revisit these two in some way as this story does Jude and Cardan? (Consider this the unofficial start of my campaign for an Undersea sequel series, just saying.)

Black: There is definitely at least one more book and you definitely have already guessed what it will be about.

 Paste: What else are you working on as a writer? I know the Book of Night sequel is happening, but can you tease anything else for us?

Black: I am currently about forty-thousand words into Thief of Night, the Book of Night sequel, so I am hoping you will have it in 2025. After that, I have another Elfhame book— possibly a stand-alone, this time. 

Paste: And my most favorite—and most obviously selfish–question: What are you reading right now? What 2024 releases are on your radar we should be sure to keep an eye out for? 

Black: Although I was lucky enough to read it before it came out, I must recommend Kelly Link’s debut novel, Book of Love. It takes elements from various genres—horror, weird fiction, romance—to create something that is mythic and poignant and entirely unique. 

In terms of other 2024 releases, Leigh Bardugo’s The Familiar is one of my favorites of her novels. It’s just gorgeous prose, a fascinating setting, and a protagonist that is both ruthlessly ambitious and also ruthlessly practical. I am also very excited for people to read Sarah Rees Brennan’s spectacular adult fantasy debut, Long Live Evil, a portal fantasy where the protagonist wakes in the dangerous fictional world of her favorite fantasy novel, to great drama and hilarity.

The Prisoner’s Throne is available now wherever books are sold. 

Lacy Baugher Milas is the Books Editor at Paste Magazine, but loves nerding out about all sorts of pop culture. You can find her on Twitter @LacyMB