Joelle Carter of Justified Talks Heroes, Heartache, and Harlan County
For six seasons on Justified, Joelle Carter has played Ava Crowder, the female third of the show’s “Big Three.” That’s no small order when the other two slots are filled by Timothy Olyphant and Walton Goggins. But, much like the character she plays, you underestimate her at your peril. Paste caught up with the actor to discuss saying goodbye to heroes, heartaches, and Harlan County.
Paste Magazine: Let’s start with the painful stuff. I’ve been one of those people who has been pretty critical of Season Five.
Joelle Carter: Are you happy with Season Six so far?
Paste: I’m thrilled with Season Six so far.
Carter: Everything hurts a little before you get to the good stuff.
Paste: That’s a good life lesson in general. If things continue the way they’ve been going, this has the potential to be the best season of the show overall. I think it could surpass Season Two for the best one you guys have had.
Carter: Wow!
Paste: Looking back to last season, when the prison storyline was planned out, how much did you know about how long that arc was going to last? Did you know it was going to be pretty much the whole season?
Carter: I knew very little going into that season. I think midway through that maybe Graham [Yost] and Tim [Olyphant] had already started talking about how long the show was meant to go. I’m not positive. But somewhere down the line they decided that six was going to be it. Five became a vehicle to get to six, and what they wanted to do in six.
Paste: So, at some point they basically decided that as much as servicing the current plot was important, that there was also a need to go ahead and plant the seeds of what would need to happen in a final season?
Carter: Yes, and this put Ava in a position—the only position—where she would probably be willing to take the deal that Raylan offered, to save her own skin.
Paste: Well, since Boyd obviously wasn’t going to do it.
Carter: Right, and Raylan wasn’t either.
Paste: That’s actually a very interesting point. Was there a sense when you guys were making Season Five that maybe things weren’t quite gelling the way they always had?
Carter: I honestly can’t speak for everyone else, because I was so removed that season from the actual show. I really felt like I was in prison. Where I shot, I never saw anyone except for the few times Boyd would come to visit, and then only at the end when Timothy came to visit as Raylan.
Paste: So basically it was method acting the whole way?
Carter: Right. No acting required. I felt like I was in prison. Like, “Get me out! I need back on the show!” In that realm I only knew that they valued me enough to take a risk by putting me in such a nice position, and giving me my own storyline. Unfortunately I guess it didn’t work as well that season for some people, but it did serve me to set up an amazing, final sixth season. This season we really collaborated a lot. We’ve been wearing the skin of these characters for so long, everybody wanted to end strong. We had such a great platform to start from. Sometimes shows just have to have an ouchy season to get through.
Paste: I always have these visions in my head of an FX executive in an office somewhere watching Orange is the New Black, and saying, “We have to have a women’s prison show. Women’s prison shows are huge right now.”
Carter: (laughs) No, that screwed us! They had already planned to get me in prison, and then that damned show came out during our hiatus. We were like, “What do we do now?” They wanted to backpedal, but it was too late. We had already formulated the storyline. I couldn’t believe it.
So think about all that and then watch it again and maybe you think, “Hey, maybe they did okay.”
Paste: It was only really a bad season by Justified standards, which means it was still better than 98 percent of the stuff that’s on television. Obviously, all the best stuff is really just paying off now. A lot of it came out in the episode when Ava and Boyd went to Bulletville, and she finally got to unload on him about leaving her in jail. It was never clear how much Ava knew while she is in prison about what was going on outside, like the decisions Boyd had made. What did you think that she knew?
Carter: Coming out of prison the only thing I knew was that Raylan told me that Boyd chose to make a deal with the Marshals, and it had nothing to do with me. It had nothing to do with saving me. All that he asked for was that they give him a clean slate, and he gets left alone. That felt like a huge abandonment for Ava.
Still, coming out and seeing him, having to react with him, and being put in this position of an informant, I’m not sure she really had any idea of how she was going to handle it. Then when she was out, she had to figure it out day by day, step by step.