Catching Up With Béla Fleck and Abigail Washburn
You’d find little debate about calling Béla Fleck and Abigail Washburn the king and queen of the banjo—Fleck, a master who has taken the instrument across multiple genres, and Washburn as someone who re-radicalized it by combining it with Far East culture and sounds. As the story goes, the two met each other at a square dance, eventually fell in love, played together in a quartet alongside Ben Sollee and Casey Driessen, got married and would occasionally pop up in each other’s solo shows. But it wasn’t until last year’s Béla Fleck & Abigail Washburn LP that the two finally made it musically official.
Paste: Ten years together and you finally make a record. What took so long? What’s the story there?
Béla Fleck: Life got in the way. I mean, there was the Sparrow Quartet.
Paste: Great album.
Fleck: Thank you. I’d like to hear it again. It’s been a long time since I’ve listened to it. We put a lot into it. My little brother said it was our love child when he first listened to it. Now we have an actual love child.
Abigail Washburn: I guess that’s the ultimate answer why this record now. Because, well, we got pregnant. We knew all along that we really did eventually want to make a duo record together, but I can say that I had a lot of concerns about my career not being substantial enough to pair with Béla. Neither of us wanted me to be the unknown girlfriend or wife that nobody knew that was coming along.
Fleck: I think that was more your concern. I always felt that if people heard us together they would understand why I was playing with you and thank me for exposing them to you. But I think it’s better that we waited because Abby does have a lot of strength now in the music world completely dissociated with me. So bringing us together definitely is a more substantial event to a lot of people and has helped propel this project.
Washburn: It takes a long time unless you have a huge hit or you’re that band in that year.
Fleck: I think we would have waited longer if we hadn’t had the baby.
Washburn: I think that’s true. I think so.
Fleck: But I’ve been pushing for it for quite a while.
Paste: But there is the Sparrow Quartet, so that did exist.
Fleck: And that was really a wonderful experience. But everybody went on to do things. Everybody was busy, and also I think it was something about our coupling that, because there were four people and everybody was strong and equal, our couplehood wasn’t a major part of it. It was kept out of it.
Washburn: We were trying very hard not to have us being a couple be annoying in that band.
Fleck: Yeah, when you’re a couple and you have a band around you, those other people become outsiders or something. So it felt like if we were going to do something together that was really us two, it really needed to be just us two.
Washburn: But I can’t tell you how lucky we feel every day when we’re on the road with our baby on the bus.
Paste: What a cool way to grow up.
Washburn: I hope so.
Paste: He probably doesn’t know any different at this point.
Fleck: Every day is Disneyland. He just goes from one amazing day to the next.
Paste: Hopefully he’ll recognize that at some point. What a cool trip.
Washburn: I think so.
Fleck: Because we love it.
Washburn: We adore it. He’s surrounded by people who are passionate. We love the people we’re touring with.
Paste: It’s led to this great record. I’ve heard the story that it starts with “I’ve Been Working On the Railroad.” You find these traditional songs, something that you both have lots of experience with, but I don’t imagine you sit around with your iPod listening to centuries-old songs. But they’re such a part of your life, these old-timey songs.
Fleck: They sort of show up periodically. Abby finds a song, she’s like, “I just want to do that.” Some of these songs go back to Sparrow days. “What Are They Doing In Heaven Today?” Abby started singing that in Sparrow. We didn’t record it, but it was one of the songs she sang. When it came time to record, since we didn’t have a lot of time to spend doing creative stuff because of the baby, “Why don’t we start out recording whatever is around that we both feel passionate about?” There were several songs like that. One was “Heaven,” one was “Shotgun.” “Pretty Polly” we had done.
Paste: Great example there. You take “Pretty Polly” and “Railroad” and you have these songs that have been done to death to a point. But you still find new ways. How do you make it so different? Because I’ve heard “Pretty Polly” done the same way a million times, but it’s not the way you do it. And “Railroad,” it seems like it’s a completely different song. It just happens to have all the words we’re familiar with.
Fleck: That was one of the last songs we worked up was “Railroad.”
Washburn: It was a real surprise. Juno was six or seven months old and he was just starting to sit up at the table. One morning, he sort of hit his hand on the table and liked the sound of it and the way it felt. So he did it again. Then I started hitting the table with him and he started hitting with me. We were having so much fun and all of a sudden, I started singing, “I’ve Been Working On the Railroad,” but it came out a little different. It came out as this sort of bluesy kind of thing.
Fleck: I call home later that day and Abby says “Hey Juno, let’s show Daddy what we did today.” And I said, “That’s really cool and we need to do that song. That’s a great idea.” Abby wasn’t thinking that seriously about it.
Washburn: It would have just come and gone. I wouldn’t have even remembered we did that.
Paste: And so you start thinking of the different chords that would go along with it.
Fleck: Once we started getting into it, the next tour we started doing it with almost no arrangements. By the end of the tour we started refining it and coming up with a real arrangement, and when we got home we recorded it.
Paste: Pete Seeger wouldn’t recognize this version, but I don’t think he’d be upset.
Washburn: I think we both feel that old-timey tradition is an oral tradition and one that gets passed down. It’s a sign of respect to do the music of your elders. I don’t think we’d ever think they were worn out or too old or overdone.
Fleck: They are—only if you do them in an imitated fashion are they worn out, because you’re not expressing who you are through the song. But if you can find a way to be yourself in an old song, great!
Washburn: One of the really positive things about our collaboration is that it’s very unique. We can’t think of another full album of three finger and clawhammer banjo playing together.
Fleck: Even without the singing. Without the original songs that Abby brings.
Washburn: We can’t think of a whole album like that. Certainly people have done those combinations just here or there for one track or something, but it’s just unique. It’s a very unique configuration, and we took advantage of that as soon as we sat down to think about how we’re going to make this record. We knew immediately, only two banjos all the time.
Fleck: Yeah, it wasn’t going to be produced, we weren’t going to bring in a lot of guests to fill it out. I guess my little point that I bring up in some of these interviews is the banjo has a magic to it when you’re up close. There’s a magic field that comes out of the banjo when you play it clawhammer or three-finger. It’s very beautiful. Usually the only person who gets to experience it is the player. Maybe somebody that’s as close as you are. Once you get a little further, you don’t get that magic field. Once you start blending it in with a lot of other instruments, that magic field gets dampened down and diminished by all the surrounding instruments and frequencies, which takes those frequencies and you don’t hear them anymore. So our goal was to keep that magic field of the two banjos, which we get when we sit real close together and play and the sound blends, and let everybody hear how complex and interesting and big that sound is. Find a way to record that sound because that’s really when we amplify on the live show, we’re trying to do the same thing, to make that sound as loud as it is when you’re this close. Not to try to blast you with it or be loud, to make it sound like you were as close to the instrument as we are. It’s not a super quiet instrument. It’s got a lot of dynamic range. And when we play with a flatpick, it’s really loud. The clawhammer could be a lot louder than bluegrass playing because you have your whole hand banging on it. Bluegrass is not that loud, and it was really built around a microphone.